Thanks Devin for responding so fast. I actually called footjoy and inquired, he said golflocker.com is very reputable and recommends to everyone. He too said discontinued, but didn't say about 2005-2009, cool to know, thanks. I orded them right before posting, and will probably get a second pair for that steal. Have got fj blems before and couldn't even locate a blem. Also have the fj country club casuals with the tassel and leather sole and they are fantastic shoes. Glad i found these with the erickson last though, not so formal. Thanks again for your very informative post.